Town meetings
From Ancient Anguish Mud Wiki - AAwiki
Town hall meetings are held periodically by administrators in the town hall in Tantallon to discuss various issues.
17 July 2014 meeting log
A stenographer says: Logging started at Thu Jul 17 17:00:03 2014 by Fir.
Fir says: Logging!
MaNi says: oh
MaNi says: neat
Fir says: So standard Stars rules, don't shout the answer out loud! No wait,
wrong event.
MaNi grins evilly.
Whitehand says: good evening ladies and gentledwarves...
SmithS arrives.
MaNi peers at Luthien quizzically.
SmithS whispers something to a huge fawn trained fox.
MaNi whispers something to Luthien.
Fir says: Ok I guess I need to do some introductory thing. Welcome to Town
Hall Meeting! We're here to like talk random stuff and I have some
things I'm curiosu about that I'll ask at some point if we have
time.
Brain is half-here.
CaLandryLL arrives.
Luthien shrugs at MaNi.
Fir says: Curious even.
Fir says: Any brave souls want to like throw in some random question they
want to ask, or do I start with random curiosities.
Eco says: Sure
SmithS leaves south.
A huge fawn trained fox leaves south.
Sarcasm arrives.
MaNi says: why are my taxes so damn high!
MaNi sniffs.
Ark arrives.
Whitehand says: When is cake being served? and is there going to be any
coffee?
Qq slowly turns into a stone statue.
MaNi agrees with Whitehand wholeheartedly.
Scarecrazy says: Anyone want to swap for my winter?
CaLandryLL leaves south.
Fir falls down laughing.
Fir says: I'm going to mail these first-hand as PRESSING QUESTIONS PRESENTED
TO THE SENATE.
Eco says: I'm not sure if it's an appropriate question or not, but I was
wondering what adinos' status is these days, he's been working on
some cool projects?
CaLandryLL arrives.
Fir says: Oh yeah I can forward questions, I didn't say that.
Sarcasm says: Well that depends what kind of winter we're talking about
Solomon arrives.
CaLandryLL throws a fluffy blueberry cream pie and hits Whitehand soundly in
the face!
Whitehand licks his mouth slowly, savouring the cream.
Brain mumbles something about lacking telepathetic powers.
Anthem arrives.
Anthem leaves up.
Anthem arrives.
MaNi grins evilly at Anthem.
Solomon lies down.
Fir says: I think I haven't asked him for clearance to gossip about his cool
stuff beforehand!
Eco nods solemnly.
Fir looks very innocent.
Brain frowns.
Scarecrazy says: As far as I know, Adinos fully intends to finish all his
projects. He just does it a bit at a time.
Solomon hiccups.
MaNi says: not familiar with his work. what kind of things has he produced?
Fir says: Yeah, he pops in, works like a madman and gives us loads of stuff
to do and then goes away again for a while.
Some cream dribbles down Whitehand's chin.
Ygritte slowly turns into a stone statue.
Eco nods solemnly.
Brain says: That's better than what I was thinking was happening.
CaLandryLL says: are we talking about the psycho guild
Fir says: On AA timescales, everything is sloooow.
MaNi nods solemnly.
Eco says: yeah that's what i was most curious about :D
Brain was thinking about psions.
MaNi says: should rename wizards to treants
MaNi coughs noisily.
MaNi says: or ents, rather
A whiff of blueberry tickles your nose.
CaLandryLL says: ho
CaLandryLL says: hum
Fir says: Oh yeah, we have teasers in about that! Yeah. Don't hold breath for
it yet, but I'm pretty sure it'll get in eventually.
Brain nods at Fir.
Ygritte turns living again.
Fir says: Making new classes turns out to be challenging, I was trying to
learn how to balance classes and concoted a great headache. :)
Fir says: And then I became QC instead. Hehehehe.
The last of the cream drips off Whitehand's face.
Whitehand says: any word on newts adventures in updating ficers?
Qq turns living again.
Ark slowly turns into a stone statue.
Solomon says: when can mages expect more spells, or another school?
Fir says: It's not on my map yet, I think planning stages.
Fir says: (The ficer project.)
Whitehand nods solemnly to Fir.
Solomon looks drunk.
Sarcasm slowly turns into a stone statue.
Sarcasm turns living again.
Qq says: is it set in stone that traits will never be resettable? or is that
being considered?
Shadap says: Good question.
Anthem slowly turns into a stone statue.
Solomon agrees wholeheartedly with Shadap.
Fir says: I don't think we have entire mage schools under work, I'm hoping
some fixes will make it in next. Most other stuff is at level of
ideas.
Whitehand says: What you dont want to have a marika incident to reset traits?
Sarcasm says: Ten million gold to reset traits *cough*
Anthem turns living again.
Anthem says: I could afford that today. but it'd be uber unbalanced. knowing
what I know now.
Solomon says: sacrifice a level to reset traits
Solomon looks queasy.
Scarecrazy says: I think it's a question for balance, in the end, but I don't
believe it impossible.
MaNi says: and any sort of loss in trait points wouldn't be worth it. might
as well restart
Fir says: Traits are kind of this rhino in the living room, we hope we could
Make It Work Great From Scratch so making this huge bubblegum patch
that - yeah - has lots of problems no matter how we do it, is kind
of this option we like to try to not think about.
Anthem says: still doesn't get to the point that you set up 'leveling' traits
far differently from 'end game' traits.
Eco slowly turns into a stone statue.
Fir says: But yeah, balance'd know better.
Solomon hiccups.
Scarecrazy says: But it will likely be coupled with some update to the traits
system (non-balance opinion here).
Fir says: Invisible rhino. I'm not sure if that's a concept in English.
Anthem says: you're more likely to see the whole freaking system downgraded
if you get that.
Solomon hiccups.
Fir says: You try not to bump into it but no one sees it so you can't talk
about it.
Brain mumbles something about elephant in the room.
MaNi agrees with Anthem wholeheartedly.
CaLandryLL slowly turns into a stone statue.
Agarwaen steps out of a magical gateway.
The gateway closes behind him.
Ciarrai arrives.
Eco turns living again.
CaLandryLL says: the elephant in the room
CaLandryLL turns living again.
Luthien says: we just call him eco
Fir says: Oh, you have elephants in English? Cute.
MaNi nods solemnly.
Bytre composes.
Ygritte slowly turns into a stone statue.
CaLandryLL trumpets at Eco.
Whitehand bows gracefully to Bytre.
Luthien says: oh look the Balance arch ;)
Fir sweeps Bytre across the dance floor.
Ygritte turns living again.
Fir says: HOW HANDY!
Sarcasm claps.
Scarecrazy says: Look! There is Balance!
Fir says: Walked straight into a trap.
Sarcasm exclaims: TARP!
Bytre says: Where??
Ark turns living again.
Agarwaen points...thataway.
Fir says: We've been claiming that Balance Has Some Idea if traits will ever
be resettable. But I gave the usual explanation that traits are
Complicated(TM).
Sarcasm asks: is that like Feature(TM)?
Fir says: It's designed so that it can't be reset, that's why it's not
resettable - you get benefits from the trait that we can't reset
away.
Fir says: In that sense it's a Feature.
Agarwaen nods solemnly.
Qq slowly turns into a stone statue.
Bytre says: Traits are indeed complicated. Without giving forward looking
guidance, I would suggest that if traits were to be changed in
nature and/or changed in balance regard, there would likely be an
opportunity to reset them and chose anew.
Shadap slowly turns into a stone statue.
Qq nods at Bytre.
Qq turns living again.
Fir says: Ah, yeah, true. If we've tweaked them, then we've allowed resetting
them.
Fir says: Any questions in between that I missed?
Shadap turns living again.
Solomon shakes his head at Fir.
Anthem slowly turns into a stone statue.
Fir says: Ok then!
Sarcasm says: Resetting traits seems to be a popular request. If they'll be
reset if you tweak them, maybe they should be tweaked so we can
reset them. :P
MaNi nods solemnly.
Agarwaen snorts derisively.
Fir says: Yeah, you should start driving for a change for the exact trait you
want reset.
Solomon shrugs helplessly.
Bytre says: Are you saying that sarcastically?
Sarcasm says: Maybe
Ciarrai says: Are we allowed to just speak freely or? <<
Sarcasm peers at the sky.
Brain snickers.
A small trained wolf howls loudly!
Fir says: Yeah, speak freely.
Agarwaen pokes Wolf in the ribs.
A small trained wolf barks loudly!
Fir says: If we miss what you said, Luthien'll remember.
Brain cowers from Ciarrai.
Luthien nods ominously.
CaLandryLL slowly turns into a stone statue.
Whitehand slowly turns into a stone statue.
Ciarrai says: Wouldn't need to reset traits if the restriction to only 15
slots wasn't a thing.
Scarecrazy slowly turns into a stone statue.
Sarcasm says: That's part of the balance in it
Ark slowly turns into a stone statue.
CaLandryLL says: this is perfect
Fir says: Yeah, the restriction's also a feature.
Agarwaen says: that sounds like more of a balance issue. traits are designed
to be somewhat limited.
CaLandryLL turns living again.
CaLandryLL tries to fool you that he tells Luthien all his passwords
Fir says: I TESTED THEM THEY WEREN'T YOURS
Fir says: I mean...
MaNi snickers.
Fir says: Ahem, I'll take that out of the log later. ;)
A small trained wolf howls loudly!
MaNi pokes Wolf in the ribs.
A small trained wolf howls loudly!
Agarwaen says: pets should be neither seen nor heard.
MaNi nods solemnly.
Ciarrai says: Just sayin', rebalancing the cost of traits and the way they
scale might be easier and/or more effective than trying to
figure out a way to reset or refund.
Whitehand says: so trait tweeks. if we want to suggest one be tweeked to whom
would we send the request exactly?
Whitehand turns living again.
Ciarrai says: Cassandra, hush.
Ciarrai gives something to Cassandra.
A small trained wolf wolfs down a small steamed fillet of bass.
Solomon thinks carefully.
Bytre says: Minor tweaks to traits will not reset them. If we do a more
significant rework and rebalance, that is what would incur a
reset type event. Reworking major parts of a person's skill set
is not to be taken lightly.
Scarecrazy turns living again.
Whitehand says: Not saying that I have any I want to get tweeked but just
incase
Fir says: Making noise on suggestion board and coming up with a great idea,
then hauling the awesome ideas to e.g. balance wizards would
probably be a logical target.
Ygritte slowly turns into a stone statue.
Whitehand says: Good enough. wont be hearing from me, just wanted to make
sure it was clear for those who are here and have ideas
Fir says: You'll essentially need to convince something to want to go through
the pain of implementing the idea.
Fir says: Something. You see, wizards are things. I meant someone.
Fir says: Ahem. Robots rule the world.
Sarcasm exclaims: And then the pain of the inevitable mortals who will
complain that their awesome traits just got changed!
Fir says: True.
Shadap slowly turns into a stone statue.
Qq slowly turns into a stone statue.
Fir says: But that's usually reducable somewhat.
Solomon says: we always complain though
Qq says: My current issue with the trait set up is this. You can gear your
play style around certain equipment in the game and you spend your
permanent trait points on supporting this playstyle. Then that piece
of equipment may get nerfed and you’ve essentially permanently
wasted your traits points/hard work on something that can be changed
on the whim on balance. It seems only fair if stuff is constantly
being balanced in the game, you should be able to re-allocate your
trait points to account for this.
Qq turns living again.
Eco says: see: mordren
Fir says: What kind of equipment items are we thinking about?
Ciarrai agrees wholeheartedly with Qq.
Sarcasm says: see: Thornberg
MaNi agrees with Fir wholeheartedly.
Sarcasm says: Specifically, Elvenheart and the reset rogue tweaks
Sarcasm says: Ficer weapon tweaks
Fir says: What is "reset rogue tweak"?
Qq says: yeah i was speaking with mordren in mind
Shadap says: Wait. Elvenheart was changed?
Shadap turns living again.
Brain says: Flower not being able to use easy sleeper.
Sarcasm says: recent
Sarcasm says: sorry, not reset
Qq says: but I have also been avoiding taking staff expert staff with my
rogue as i'm worried about nerfs.
Ciarrai says: In the event something ever comes out that's more enticing to
Spoo than halfspears.
Qq says: weapon expert
Solomon worships Spoo
CaLandryLL slowly turns into a stone statue.
Fir says: Ahh, a secondary behaviour bugfix broke a character build?
Brain says: More than once.
MaNi says: I think it should be more that some traits are permanent and some
are resetable. Things like weapon expert, for example, should be a
life choice and not taken lightly.
Fir says: I.e. you stop wielding a weapon, no longer get the bonus, and used
to get it?
Bytre slowly turns into a stone statue.
Qq says: I was speaking more specifically about Mordren, who spent a lot of
traits on getting wep expert 4 ls and then the ficer longsword was
heavily nerfed
Brain is afk fer the rest of the meeting now.
Whitehand says: yeah trill ls went to the crapper parry wise
Ciarrai says: Seems to me that weapon expert is one of the ones you'd want to
be able to reset. You expert staff because SoT is op, they nerf
it, suddenly you wish your cleric used clubs again.
Whitehand says: everything else trill is still np last I checked
Eco nods solemnly.
Fir says: Ok, I'd say from what I understand of these examples is that some
code was noticed to not work the way it should, got fixed and
because people knew about it and planned against it, it seems like
a wanton nerf.
MaNi says: I think it should be more that people do not base their whole
playstyle around one item, Ciarrai
Fir thinks carefully.
MaNi says: l
Agarwaen nods solemnly at MaNi.
Anthem says: I do, and its a risk I accept.
Anthem turns living again.
MaNi nods solemnly to Anthem.
Fir says: I'd kind of be inclined to go with Mani here, but I can see how
someone would want to optimize to the extreme. In life and in AA,
extreme specialization is a risk played, sometimes works great,
sometimes not.
Agarwaen nods solemnly.
Solomon says: but the physics and laws of nature do not change, as the can in
Anguish. to play devil's advocate.
Agarwaen says: Elvie is a pretty unique (and old) creature
Fir says: Balance on AA means that there should be multiple ways to the same
goal that are essentially equivalent. Whenever there's one path
that is like extremely much better (i.e. it kills the other paths),
balance's job is to restore the alternatives.
MaNi nods solemnly to Fir.
Agarwaen says: but yeah, that was more of a bugfix than a nerf
Whitehand says: Hence the nerf to my dear coffin.
MaNi says: One issue ive had is the constant talk of nerf nerf nerf of items
MaNi says: waht was the last time you saw a BUFF of an item?
Bytre says: There are more than one longsword in the game as well. Your
expertise should not be limited to one particular unique.
Bytre turns living again.
Fir says: It's a local value to maintain choice, so that you don't end up
with these playbooks that if you don't do it like this, you're
being an idiot.
Ciarrai gives something to Cassandra.
A small trained wolf wolfs down a small steamed fillet of snapper.
Agarwaen thanks Ciarrai profusely.
Ciarrai licks Agarwaen.
Fir says: Oh we fixed one item's boosts to actually WORK the way they were
intended a while back.
MaNi says: oh?
Luthien nods.
Fir says: But psychologically speaking, a nerf hurts so you remember that.
Qq says: but the very fact you have traits makes players gear towards a
certain playstyle
Qq says: like you choose a path based on the traits you take
Solomon shakes his head at Qq.
Eco agrees wholeheartedly with Qq.
Solomon says: you choose those traits to set you on that path. you don't have
to.
Bytre says: Nerf nerf nerf.. that actually isn't what Balance is all about.
We DO sometimes need to adjust something which is out of whack
for the overall game. Sometimes they work fine when originally
intended, but other changes in the game (such as new classes, or
levels above 19) end up creating odd situations.
Whitehand says: I dunno, I have 10 traits, and can still do whatever I
please.
Fir says: Yeah, you choose e.g. to specialize in longswords - I'm talking
about extreme specialization, like specializing in Elvenheart, or a
ficer mithril longsword of coolness.
Brain slowly turns into a stone statue.
Fir says: (The spellcraft 'of coolness' is rare and only found in libraries
when you stand on your head for 40 minutes.)
Fir says: Oh wait it wasn't 1st of April.
Fir says: Scratch that.
Solomon says: everyone prefers tril anyway...
Fir says: I just mailed balance about "maybe we should boost X", we'll see
what happens.
Whitehand says: Taking a skill focus for example doesnt mean you ALWAYS have
to use that weapon. same goes with expert
Eco says: the thing is though if we had the ability to reset traits, or even
A trait, this kind of thing wouldn't happen
Eco says: which is why i think it's a great idea
Fir says: My hypothetical spellforge of coolness ONLY works on mithril! ;)
MaNi agrees with Whitehand wholeheartedly.
Anthem slowly turns into a stone statue.
Eco says: it doesn't have to be like real life, oh you invested in something
and now it sucks, too bad. it's a game
Whitehand says: I have focus tw. dont see me always dualing do ya.
Shadap slowly turns into a stone statue.
Bytre says: If you had the ability to reset a trait, how would that be
different from quaffing a potion or casting a spell? Traits are
an integral part of your physiology and personality, not a pair
of pants you put on in the morning.
Fir says: Yeah, it would have a definite benefit. The cost of resettable
traits is too high to get the benefit though, as far as current
estimates go.
Agarwaen says: I can see a situation where (hypothetically speaking) a
particular tweak wouldn't cause a full reset, but only give an
option to reset ONE trait. other tweaks might be global.
Sarcasm slowly turns into a stone statue.
Fir says: It's also partially affected by how our endgame got more infinite -
when you hit level 19 you were maxed, so adding traits on top of
that would have been meh, just make a new char.
Agarwaen nods solemnly at Bytre.
Ciarrai says: What if it cost trait points to get rid of traits? Work to
learn, work to unlearn, if it's that important to you?
Fir says: Now you invest more years into a char even if you powerplay, I
figure.
Scarecrazy says: Oooooh
MaNi shakes his head at Ciarrai.
MaNi says: I don't see that as a viable option either, as you're still better
off restarting.
Sarcasm says: I wouldn't say that
Sarcasm turns living again.
Scarecrazy says: restarting a level 38 character?
Anthem turns living again.
MaNi shrugs helplessly.
Luthien shudders.
Sarcasm says: On my level 31 Necromancer, I have one trait I want to get rid
of
Solomon says: a level 38 mage with 100 tw
Sarcasm says: Cost me 7 trait points
Sarcasm says: But it's taking up 1 of my 15 trait slots
MaNi says: maybe in that case.
Fir says: The primary (most sensible) reason for resetting a trait, I guess,
would be to get an additional slot.
MaNi nods solemnly.
Qq slowly turns into a stone statue.
Fir says: In some senses we could probably look at the values of different
traits - it'd require a large revamp, but e.g. a slot used for
common sense IS pretty different from a slot used for weapon
expertise.
Whitehand says: There are a few traits that seem good at the time, but end up
being not all that great. easy sleeper for example
The eyes of a stone statue of Qq seem to dim.
Solomon says: why not explore the idea of spending trait points to reset
traits...
Fir says: I'm getting the impression that the imbalance is in "choose 15
megapowerful traits" vs. "sample 10 random traits and find 5 great
ones".
Ciarrai says: Or adding a trait that adds trait slots.
Luthien says: and don't allow reset of level-up traits like skill focus :P
Sarcasm agrees wholeheartedly with Luthien.
MaNi says: Oh, someone pointed out a while back that a trait is supposed to
be a part of your being. in that respect, you could argue that
losing a stat point upon death is similarly unrealistic. Being
less proficient at a trait is akin to being less intelligent,
strong etc.
Solomon says: or remove each level of that trait one at a time
Eco slowly turns into a stone statue.
Anthem says: fml
Ciarrai leaves south.
A small trained wolf leaves south.
Ciarrai arrives.
Bytre slowly turns into a stone statue.
Bytre says: Perhaps you should lose a trait when you die, so then you can
learn a new one instead?
Qq enters the game.
Bytre turns living again.
Fir says: These folks who seriously feel they need to reset their trait, are
they all fully optimized trait-wise already? So looking for the
ultraperfect build?
Shadap acks.
Shadap turns living again.
Shadap shakes his head at Bytre.
Solomon shrugs helplessly.
Solomon says: does it matter what they are looking for?
Agarwaen says: I don't know how you'd tell the difference objectively without
a player-by-player examination.
Eco nods solemnly.
Eco turns living again.
Solomon says: I am level 15 with one trait used, and I am not against trait
resets
Fir says: We'd need to collect case studies somewhere. Aawiki or whatever.
Eco says: a simple appeals process. my build got screwed over by an
incidental thing, can I get a reset
Scarecrazy slowly turns into a stone statue.
Whitehand says: Ask me before the marika incident. I needed a reset. well I
got my reset didnt I. happy as a clam now.
Bytre says: I bet there are lots of 30 somethings with tatoos or piercings
who think the same, and would like a reset
Agarwaen says: that sounds fraught with bias implications
Fir says: Was the Marika incident when you made a street performance of
yourself?
Eco says: you can remove tattoos and piercings
MaNi says: well bytre they have surgery for that now ;p
Shadap agrees wholeheartedly.
MaNi agrees with Eco wholeheartedly.
Whitehand says: yuppers.
Agarwaen nods solemnly at MaNi.
Shadap says: And kind of apples-to-oranges anyways.
MaNi says: perhaps
Qq says: I just think the playerbase should be considered. It feels rotten to
a player who has invested a lot of time an effort in cleverly
selecting permanent traits to give himself an edge and then seeing
that edge wiped out by unforeseen balance changes.
MaNi says: you should relook at what the trait system is
Sarcasm says: AA has tools for tattoo and piercing removal as well :P
MaNi says: what if it was more of a magical tattoo?
MaNi grins evilly.
Agarwaen says: maybe a psychic surgeon who costs 1mil XP to remove a trait
point spent.
Eco says: the thing is if you'd let a reset when you tweak a trait, you
should let a reset when you tweak an incidental thing that effects
the trait
Agarwaen shrugs helplessly.
Solomon agrees wholeheartedly with Eco.
Qq agrees wholeheartedly with Eco.
Fir says: It's not a question of considering/not considering though, it's
about rewarding optimization risk-taking specifically.
Whitehand says: Changes happen all the time. I think you need to learn how to
addapt.
Agarwaen nods solemnly.
Solomon agrees wholeheartedly with Whitehand.
Qq says: adapt? how? the traits are permanent
Whitehand says: Or if your THAT unhappy, die down, suicide, and remake.
MaNi says: Heres an idea.. what if instead of automatically incurring trait
points you pay outright 200k? like paying for a stat?
Agarwaen says: no one is saying there aren't circumstances where a
reset/refund would be appropriate. but there's a big
difference between optional and restorative.
Agarwaen says: what do you mean MaNi?
Bytre says: Qq, I would agree that if you had traits that were wiped out by a
balance change - really wiped out by a balance change - that
would be a good argument. I am not aware of this happening.
Agarwaen says: pay who?
Fir says: There's various thoughts on how we could completely remake the
trait system, it seems like a biiig undertaking though.
Sarcasm says: In Mani's example, you lose the 200k exp to gain 1 trait point
MaNi nods solemnly.
Scarecrazy turns living again.
MaNi says: I maean take it away from this mystical nonsensical "trait" and
more a magical effect
Fir says: Maybe we should set out to create the Alternative Trait System and
let them compete. ;)
MaNi agrees with Fir wholeheartedly.
Shadap ponders the situation.
Fir says: "On creation, choose the Hardcore Path or the Trait Path",
probably.
Solomon says: maybe you could just take traits out alltogether, since it
seems they arent appreciated...
Fir says: I'm just calling it Hardcore because Kingdom of Loathing has that.
Agarwaen says: eww
MaNi says: pay some npc " blah points" for a magical tattoo that makes you
regenerate health more.
Whitehand says: Yeah solomon might be on to something there.
Sarcasm says: Discussing ways on how to change something does not mean it's
not appreciated
Shadap rolls his eyes.
Whitehand says: seems that most folks are unhappy with them so far.
Agarwaen nods solemnly at Sarcasm.
Fir says: Nah, we're not going to take something out just because people like
it.
Anthem slowly turns into a stone statue.
Solomon says: some are discussing... others are complaining
Agarwaen says: a few people in one meeting. you'd need a much bigger sample
to say 'most'.
Shadap says: That's no reason to resort to threats.
MaNi says: its not people are unhappy with them, its people are unhappy with
the unpredictability between trait to trait, and the inability to
remove less than useful ones
Whitehand boggles at the concept.
Agarwaen says: no one is threatening?
Whitehand nods solemnly to MaNi.
Luthien says: the primary issue is a desire to be able to reset one or more
traits; assorted ideas and suggestions have been discussed (as
they have been in the past). ultimately it's a big project for
the Balance team and probably not going to get a solid answer
on it today
CaLandryLL enters the game.
MaNi nods solemnly.
Luthien asks: do people want to keep discussing this specific topic, or were
there other issues to address today?
Shadap says: Saying lets just get rid of them? It completely undermines the
entire point of the original question.
Fir says: But I'd like if there's lots of burning hearts on this topic that
people would start building up a serious proposal on e.g. the aa
wiki or whatever public forum, on a system that we could have
instead of traits that would fill the same role - it's not
impossible to branch here and have both, if it's fun enough. What
would you do if you had a clean slate.
Agarwaen agrees wholeheartedly with Luthien.
MaNi says: Western expansion? ongoing projects?
Agarwaen says: one player suggested it. don't panic.
Shadap nods at Qq.
Sarcasm exclaims: PANIC!
Sarcasm exclaims: wait, I mean FIRE!
Whitehand says: yeah western expansion. thats a thing
Agarwaen says: Panic on your own time. we're on a schedule here.
Fir says: Also on the reset side, if you feel there's lots of valid cases
that should be reset specifically, collect them somewhere and find
the pattern.
Agarwaen nods solemnly at Fir.
Luthien nods.
Fir says: If one player somewhere optimized for one thing to the extreme and
feels like they're a lame duck as a result of some bugfix that
followed, it's an anecdote. If ten people do it, it's a pattern.
Ciarrai leaves south.
A small trained wolf leaves south.
Ciarrai arrives.
Fir says: Oftentimes there's people who feel like they're a lame duck for
relatively insignificant changes as well, so it's hard to filter
this.
Fir says: Oh western expansion.
Fir says: Let's see what I dare to say about it.
Shadap smiles happily.
Bytre slowly turns into a stone statue.
Ygritte turns living again.
Solomon shrugs helplessly.
Fir says: On tmud, it's possible to walk around in it. The map part is
essentially there. But we want to have more areas for it first, and
that's going to probably take a year or two.
MaNi nods solemnly.
MaNi says: nice to hear its that far
Fir says: I'm hoping fewer than more, you can help by let's see making a
wizard who can review fast.
Fir peers at the sky.
MaNi says: I assumed it was still in planning phases.
Fir says: I'm sure we can come up with something.
Sarcasm asks: Any plans to relax wizarding requirements?
Sarcasm peers at the sky.
Whitehand says: Yeah so we may see that before the decade ends
Fir says: Note that I was estimating we could be in within a year about a
year and a half ago, but there was a bit of a hit to our powerhouse
reviewer capacity.
MaNi grins evilly at Whitehand.
Fir says: I suspect the real world is affecting us.
Luthien says: some things are stalled at the authors rather than reviewers at
the moment
Luthien says: just sayin'
MaNi nods solemnly.
Agarwaen says: yes and no. 'planning' is a multiphase affair on AA, but like
Fir said, the map is solid.
Fir says: Yeah, that's an issue too.
Agarwaen nods solemnly at Luthien.
MaNi says: and and when do we get a 500 foot icewall and whitewalkers and
children of the forest?
Whitehand says: Well the map being done is a good sign in my books
Luthien throws her head back and cackles with glee!
Luthien exclaims: drop the scythe!
Agarwaen snorts derisively.
Fir says: That authors wander off. I'm babysitting three area projects that
aren't originally mine, and hoping that one or two more follow the
same path but I don't have capacity for more at this moment.
Luthien nods.
Fir says: I read through the ENTIRE map and walked through it one room at a
time. It was awesome.
Qq says: I have one other point regarding traits. Due to the permanent nature
of selecting a trait, have you considered making clear exactly how
each trait works so people can make a more informed decision on what
the select?
Sarcasm says: That would never happen since there's practically no
transparency anywhere else on how things exactly work
Shadap says: I'd have to agree with Qq again since that's a good point. I
feel like there are some traits where I would need to level up a
character to 20+ just to experiment for something I might
consider using on this character/
Agarwaen says: sounds like a great project for AAwiki
Shadap agrees wholeheartedly with Agarwaen.
Fir says: I interpret this as one of the local values again - instead of the
wizards pointing out that "dude, this is a 1d20 knife", we say
"it's a knife", and then unleash the Science Players to compete for
who solves what kind of a knife it is first.
CaLandryLL slowly turns into a stone statue.
MaNi agrees with Fir wholeheartedly.
Whitehand says: Yeah all sorts of science folks about.
Sarcasm says: Well, the exceptional stats themselves are 130 trait points,
that requires a mid-20s character just to get it
Fir says: If we give the info out outright, it means we essentially kill the
playstyle of the scientists.
Solomon slowly turns into a stone statue.
Shadap says: However, it has been said before that Ancient Anguish is not
supposed to be about numbers. And there have been times when
people have figured these sorts of things out, they get changed.
MaNi nods solemnly to Shadap.
Fir says: That varies, some authors may have a stronger preference on AA not
beign about numbers than others.
MaNi says: See: Paldin changing how exp from fireball damage works
Qq says: Carrying out 'science' on traits would be fine if you could switch
between traits to test them out. But traits are permanent.. which
makes the testing kinda difficult without committing.
Fir says: You're going to need 5 chars to test 5 traits, sort of.
Fir says: So it's going to be even more glory to the one who tests it out.
Fir says: See: Ciarrai creating 100 characters to document a strange creation
behaviour.
Whitehand says: lots of trait science has already been done.
Solomon turns living again.
Fir says: Went straight to my Book of Weird People I'd Like To Hire with
that.
Ciarrai says: I don't like science.. I'm just compelled because I hate
ignorance.
MaNi says: yeah theres a good general concensus already on which traits are
good and which suck
MaNi peers at the sky.
Solomon thinks carefully.
Whitehand says: There are a few that as of yet little used, but dont worry, I
plan to take some of them anyway
Luthien says: science means 'knowledge' so i think you probably do like
science if you hate ignorance. you just hate having to make
notes of your experiments.
Fir says: There are quite a few people who love science, so I suspect we'll
just try to support more science in the future as well.
Ygritte slowly turns into a stone statue.
Shadap says: I've seen a couple of very informative posts, so I'll agree.
Though I've yet to see information compiled anywhere, and I'd be
somewhat questionable of any information that's more than a few
years old.
Whitehand nods solemnly to Shadap.
Solomon agrees wholeheartedly with Shadap.
Whitehand says: Yeah there isnt a place to go and see it all.
Luthien says: there could be if someone wants to compile it
Ciarrai says: I hate having to do the experiments, would rather just have the
knowledge up front.
Whitehand says: but there are enough folks kicking around who could work
together on it.
Fir grins mischievously at Ciarrai.
Solomon says: I keep in my notebook everything that relates to my characters
Sarcasm says: Go bribe GhanimX to come back and play.
Luthien says: afaik aawiki has open registration at the moment
Ciarrai leaves south.
A small trained wolf leaves south.
Agarwaen agrees wholeheartedly with Luthien.
Fir says: That site's statistically speaking not going anywhere either and
uses standard mediawiki.
Solomon says: most of it wouldn't be a useful contribution... locations I
like, weapons that seem to work at specific skills, quests I
figured out.
Guest arrives.
Fir says: Hey, locations you like could be a source of a HopAlong tourist bus
party!
Luthien agrees.
Fir says: Quests you figured out sound more like a character blog thing,
maybe.
Agarwaen says: can we get one of those party trolleys that you drink and
pedal?
Luthien says: carefully worded blog
Luthien says: if it's a Quest quest
Agarwaen nods solemnly at Luthien.
Solomon nods solemnly.
Whitehand says: are we ever going to see someone clearly state "Hardskinned
10 is like wearing fine plate when your nude" probably not
Agarwaen says: correct
Fir says: I want a way for people to standardize boasting their achievements,
btw. That's early planning stages, but I'm experimenting on various
different "minigames" for AA that will hopefully plop out in the
coming years as well.
Qq says: But don't you see the issue with making traits permanent but not
making how they work transparent? That system will lead to a lot of
bad choices and a lot of angry players.
You hear a haunting melody in the air as the tattoos on Sarcasm swirl and
writhe under his skin.
You hear a haunting melody in the air as the tattoos on Sarcasm swirl and
writhe under his skin.
You hear a haunting song in the air as the tattoos on Sarcasm swirl and twist
hypnotically under his skin.
Fir says: Just need to find more people capable of bravoing my code or figure
something out. ;)
Whitehand says: mini games can be fun.
Bytre says: Traits were designed to be fundamental characteristics of a
player, not something that would be changed, and would lead
towards every player being a bit different. They were all bonus -
there were not associated downgrades to players to compensate for
the new bonuses of traits going in. If you choose a trait that
does not give you as much of a bonus as you like, you're not
losing anything.
Bytre turns living again.
Fir says: I believe in transparence by player dedication. If you know you're
of the personality type that will swear for years if they choose
wrong, don't choose before someone else experiments for you.
Agarwaen nods solemnly at Fir.
Ygritte turns living again.
Solomon says: minigames are a diversion and in the long run, push me towards
something with more substance.
Whitehand says: Yeah ask around. lots of folks have information on traits
that can help you decide if its right for oyu
Fir says: That means you get the benefit of knowing for the cost of having to
wait.
Guest says: You're still losing the ability to take a different trait instead
due to the slot limit.
Fir says: Example projects of the minigame type are an item collection
system. The initial setup allows you to try to collect every unique
in the game, but I made it so I can generate additional collection
types.
Eco says: oh yeah i'm looking forward to that
Whitehand says: Oh that could be fancy
Whitehand says: every time you pick one up you get a check box for that game.
Fir says: Scoring is going to start off as completely looney, and once it
stabilizes I figure it might be a HoH topic.
Qq says: yeah that does sound cool
Agarwaen says: AAchievements!
Shadap cheers enthusiastically.
Fir says: Yeah, they all go under the topic of Achievements.
Luthien nods.
Whitehand says: Have you ever held starblade? why yes good madam I have
Eco says: speaking of minigames though: Any thoughts on getting a proper game
of poker? It's been asked for a few times and people have said
they'll do it but have left before it got done
Fir says: What else did I have already coded. The selftracker's almost done,
but that's mostly just boasting your something on the gameline.
Fir says: What's broken with the poker?
Sarcasm says: They want Texas Hold'em
Eco nods solemnly.
Fir says: I coded a go game, it's awaiting bravo review.
Agarwaen wrinkles his nose.
Solomon thinks carefully.
Whitehand says: how about battleship
Fir says: Is Texas Hold'Em somehow hard to implement or did people just got
distracted halfway through?
MaNi says: battleship would be cool
Sarcasm says: It has community cards, so it's different than the current
poker games
CaLandryLL points at MaNi excitedly.
CaLandryLL turns living again.
Agarwaen nods solemnly at Sarcasm.
MaNi points at Whitehand.
MaNi nods solemnly.
Whitehand points at Fir.
Whitehand nods solemnly.
CaLandryLL says: D8!
Whitehand says: Miss
Whitehand winks suggestively.
CaLandryLL looks sad.
Whitehand says: c4
Whitehand peers at the sky.
Eco says: are you playing battleships
CaLandryLL acks!
Solomon thinks carefully.
CaLandryLL says: you hit my ubmarine!
Eco narrows his eyes.
Whitehand grins evilly.
Solomon makes some mystical gestures.
A disembodied voice says: Everything you've ever experienced in your life has
led you up to now.
MaNi snickers.
Fir says: Ok, I'm going to write down encourage Texas Hold'Em and Battleship
implementations.
Guest says: Someone mentioned on newbie line earlier the idea of, well,
basically cockfighting.. where players could raise pets and pit
them against each other.
Fir nods solemnly.
MaNi says: that sounds cool
Solomon says: rangers and wolves
Agarwaen says: Battleship will need some massaging to get past world. ideas?
Fir says: We were throwing around the idea in a varied form too.
Agarwaen says: Dragon Battles?
Agarwaen says: Battledragons?
CaLandryLL scrubs his brain
Sarcasm says: ... I want to raise a dragon
Bytre says: BattleTrieme
MaNi says: battleconstructs
Whitehand says: We have ships.
MaNi says: but yeah we do have ships
Bytre says: BattleRowboat
Fir says: It's missing Cool Idea And Mechanics essentially, volunteers at
game design can sign up at Fir.
Agarwaen says: yeah but nothing huge like that
Sarcasm says: Naval battles
MaNi says: you sunk my canoe!
Whitehand grins evilly at MaNi.
Agarwaen says: World always prefers it as thematic as possible
Agarwaen says: not just wedged in
Whitehand says: Could be battle monsters. use dragons, wvyerns, chimera yadda
yadda
Sarcasm asks: How about being able to buy and pilot boats larger than a row
boat?
Bytre says: Oooh.. Archon
Agarwaen nods solemnly at Whitehand.
MaNi says: sounds like pokemon
Agarwaen wrinkles his nose.
Solomon says: necors vs ficers
Solomon says: you destroyed my scorpion!
Shadap slowly turns into a stone statue.
MaNi nods solemnly.
Solomon says: noooo, my lich
MaNi says: i dig that one
Whitehand says: Yeah that seems like a reasonable idea. lots of
undeads/construct options
Agarwaen says: jousting
Agarwaen peers at the sky.
Shadap ponders the situation.
Shadap turns living again.
Whitehand says: Yeah I'll ride into battle on the back of my wyvern!'
Anthem ponders the situation.
Shadap says: Like an artificer themed robot wars.
Anthem turns living again.
Guest says: Seems like a lot of great ideas and very few people to make them
happen. Might be a good time to suggest lifting the restriction
on mortals to make wizzing less intimidating for people who want
to contribute but don't want to be locked out of actually
playing.
Bytre says: I like the idea, Sarcasm. The shipping system was designed with
that potential.
Qq slowly turns into a stone statue.
MaNi says: So I've had this thought for a long while.. whats the concensus on
adding another playervalue akin to endurance/fatigue points? Would
open up a lot of potential as far as how class abilities worked
Luthien agrees with Guest.
Bytre says: What restrictions are you concerned about, Guest?
Brain turns living again.
Agarwaen says: problem is, mortalling tends to take away from wizard duties.
that's the point of the restriction for 400s.
Sarcasm asks: Is there a helpfile with current wizard restrictions?
Guest says: The inability to have mortal alts, or the restrictions on them,
as a new wizard.
Luthien says: having 1 mortal to play when you get the urge can be helpful
inspiration
Whitehand says: Ah but some folks like me for example get ideas while
randomly killing things.
Whitehand says: If i'm forced to sit and think about them, I get no ideas at
all
Eco says: yeah, hard to draw inspiration when you can't play the game
Luthien says: not to mention returning 400s that demote so they can relearn
the game
Luthien says: after they come back to AA after a year or so away
Agarwaen considers some sort of files-coded-for-hours-to-unlock-mortal
system, and shudders.
Luthien says: we'd still have those wizards if they had a mortal to play
Scarecrazy says: Yes, we have so many people who demote to play, instead.
Luthien nods.
Luthien nods.
CaLandryLL slowly turns into a stone statue.
Bytre says: A full wizard does get a mortal, and those contributing to
administrative teams get more. However, we did have to limit the
amount of mortals wizards have because there are those who would
create wizards to give their mortals in-game advantage.
Scarecrazy says: Preventing wizards from playing alts simply encourages them
to dis-engage from the game.
Guest says: Right, 1, but what about people who have several mortals? And
what if they want to play before earning full wizardhood?
Takhan arrives.
Luthien says: 400 is so restricted already, i support giving them 1 alt
Takhan leaves south.
Whitehand says: give the alt option and I might actually wiz again.
Sarcasm asks: Is the whole "you must wiz with your oldest character" still a
thing?
Luthien says: if they're going to be a cheater at 400 they'd be a cheater at
500 too, why punish the noncheaters because somebody might do
something that they'd probably get caught for eventually anyway
Luthien says: it is not
Sarcasm says: Oh, that's good
Luthien says: that was changed in november 2007, when the requirements were
also reduced
Sarcasm claps.
Luthien says: i know because it happened a week after i wizzed tinuviel
Guest says: That's good, else I'd never wiz.
Bytre says: 400 is intended to be a temporary position. A role where you
either decide you're going to push forward and become a full
wizard, or cut bait and go back to mortality.
Whitehand says: Yeah I want to keep this alt for playing.
Fir says: We've originally put the system into place to cause a pressure to
make 500 fast rather than dally at 400, and then make that area
fast (600) rather than dally at 500. These days you can plan your
project while you're still a mortal to some degree, use online
resources to learn LPC, and then woosh through if you plan a bit.
Agarwaen says: yeah Guest is what, like 4237 days old now?
Sarcasm says: That was probably my largest deterrent
Ygritte slowly turns into a stone statue.
Fir says: People who return to 400 after a long break are in an awkward
position though.
Luthien says: people dally at 400 even without an alt, i really don't see it
as likely to increase the time
Luthien says: and there are delays that are not their fault
Shadap slowly turns into a stone statue.
Guest says: Okay, so apply the coals at 400, but what about when they've
reached wizard but aren't a creator yet? How long does it take
for their area to get coded and approved and implemented?
Luthien says: waiting for world preapproval, etc
Guest says: And in the meantime you're stuck with 1 alt?
Fir says: I wonder how fast I coded my area.
Agarwaen says: 1 alt is better than 0 alts for boredom's sake
Luthien says: once your area has passed World in the qc queue (first step)
you get another alt
Fir nods solemnly.
Brain slowly turns into a stone statue.
Sarcasm says: Some people are content with having one alt. For others, it's
torture
Anthem slowly turns into a stone statue.
Guest nods at Sarcasm.
Luthien says: as agarwaen says, it's better than 0
Luthien shudders.
Ygritte turns living again.
Fir says: It'd be nice if we had some other carrot for FINISH THAT PROJECT, I
think that's the main thing that delays lifting alt restrictions.
Ark turns living again.
Luthien says: the lack of alts does not seem to have been very motivating for
400s; rather it seems to discourage people from wizzing to
begin with
Agarwaen says: possible
MaNi agrees with Luthien wholeheartedly.
Solomon agrees wholeheartedly with Luthien.
Ygritte agrees wholeheartedly with Luthien.
MaNi says: part of why I won't wizz
Fir says: At _some_ point I think it was a goal to have some threshold to go
over before wizzing, actually.
Luthien says: we have a bunch of players here who are already saying they
don't want to be a 400 because of the lack of 1 alt
Solomon says: that is why I haven't finished
Guest says: Same goes for 500. I want all my alts. Not 1 or 2.
Scarecrazy says: Getting alts is not a carrot, or we'd have a lot more
creators who still plays the game.
Luthien says: and 400 has other restrictions that motivate you to want 500
Fir says: To avoid too much newbie coders wandering around swamping the
system.
Luthien agrees with Scarecrazy hard.
Agarwaen nods solemnly at Scarecrazy.
MaNi says: "swamping the system?"
Qq turns living again.
Agarwaen says: we're already hurting for reviewers
Bytre says: Becoming a wizard is a significant path in Ancient Anguish. It
isn't like playing another alt. It changes how you see the game,
and in many ways changes how you are as a player.
Agarwaen says: which is a bit of a chicken-and-the-egg problem
Fir says: In the sense that most coders will need a LOT of training.
Agarwaen says: and that, yeah
Fir says: Which is going to tie up other wizards.
MaNi nods solemnly.
MaNi says: true
Fir says: I don't think we have a notable problem with this currently though.
Bytre says: "swamping the system" is probably more the Law side of it.
Apprentices ussually start out trying to figure out the code
behind all these mechanics they couldn't figure out as a mortal.
Luthien says: helping new wizards is good for old wizard morale
Whitehand slowly turns into a stone statue.
Luthien says: i think it can increase productivity all around
Agarwaen nods solemnly at Luthien.
Anthem falls down laughing.
Anthem turns living again.
Solomon nods at Luthien.
Fir says: Yeah, the "I made a wizard now I can optimize my chars" approach
hurts my head.
Agarwaen says: I love the Appr line
MaNi says: I thought the access you have to things is very restricted?
Bytre says: Don't get me wrong, we love new wizards who are committed to
wizardry. But it is a particular type of player who can be a
wizard, and many do not like it.
Agarwaen nods solemnly at MaNi.
Fir says: I think we can still have a ton of one-alt wannabes running around,
though.
Eco slowly turns into a stone statue.
Agarwaen says: yes and no. you still get a LOT more numbers, even without
seeing source code.
MaNi says: well, theres sample LP code in proboards, and im sure elsewhere
online
Ark slowly turns into a stone statue.
Ygritte slowly turns into a stone statue.
Ygritte turns living again.
Guest says: Seems like a player could science most anything they wanted to
anyway with enough effort, I don't see wizzing for the wrong
reasons as being that much of a threat.
Guest says: And there is a ton of LP code online Mani, for sure.
MaNi says: You all sound as though all the code is simple enough that someone
could sift through it all and say "ah-ha!" and instant 50. Is it
really that simple that a small bit of knowledge would give that
much of an edge?
Ygritte nods solemnly.
Luthien says: 1) that would be fairly suspicious 2) tell shtyrack hi
Luthien says: yes i know i didn't really answer that question
Eco says: it's pretty safe to say knowing the code lets you optimise a lot
more
Eco turns living again.
Fir makes notes.
MaNi says: so it is a hard subject, then
Solomon slowly turns into a stone statue.
CaLandryLL turns living again.
CaLandryLL says: why would you ruin the game for yourself by looking behind
the curtain if you dont plan to code
MaNi agrees with CaLandryLL wholeheartedly.
Guest says: So the point is we only want real wizards to be able to optimize
well and not wannabes or non-wizards?
Fir says: This sounds like something worth revisiting, I think. And easier to
implement if we get a decision done than, say, rewriting traits.
Shadap turns living again.
Bytre says: We've had lots of experience, with lots of wizards, to know that
the allure of using wizard knowledge to thelp their mortal - or
their friends - is real in a lot of wizards. Maybe not you *bytre
looks at YOU specifically, not the crowd as he says this*, but
for some percentage of them.
Agarwaen says: a 'real wizard' is tautologically someone more interested in
giving back to the mud than taking and optimizing. does
additional knowledge happen and benefit the wizalts? sure, but
it shouldn't be the focus.
Agarwaen nods solemnly at Bytre.
Bytre says: Through hard learned lessons, we've learned that we need to have
restrictions for someone learning to become that wizard, and
detach somewhat from the mortal world. We do empathize with the
mortal mentality of being attached to every one of your
characters and wanting to play them, and the sense of loss if you
cannot.
Guest says: I'm sure it is a serious allure, I just don't see how it's such a
serious threat that it's worth preventing aspiring wizards from
having alts.
Sarcasm asks: Psst, you know that sturdy ring that you see people with...?
Qq says: Bytre, do you mean helping your friends by cheating or simply
sharing knowledge?
Sarcasm says: *lips sealed*
Bytre says: If that describes you, you probably don't want to become a
wizard.
Whitehand says: Last time I had a wiz I rather enjoyed tinkering with the
code to make this and that, the being bottled up in my
workshop stiffled my imaginatio however.
Whitehand turns living again.
MaNi nods solemnly to Sarcasm.
MaNi says: I've heard the rumors
Anthem slowly turns into a stone statue.
Anthem turns living again.
Bytre says: Some rogue wizards directly cheated, many more of them share
knowledge or indirectly cheat.
Guest says: And I say this noting that I have nothing against level 400
having no alts.. I think that's wise. My issue is the idea of
being limited based on approval and such even after having an
area done on my end.
Solomon says: whitehand needs his imaginatio unstifled.
Solomon turns living again.
Eco says: when i've tried it i turned to other muds because of the not having
alts
Eco says: then just demoted to play more aa!
MaNi grins evilly at Eco.
Whitehand says: Yeah something just like that
Qq says: what's the big problem about wizzing to see how the game works?
Brain turns living again.
Sarcasm says: Cheating, basically, giving out wizinfo, abusing wizinfo
Agarwaen nods solemnly at Sarcasm.
Ygritte slowly turns into a stone statue.
Qq says: can you give an example?
Ygritte turns living again.
Guest says: How is knowing how things work cheating?
Sarcasm says: Knowing exactly which longsword has the highest potential
damage output
Anthem says: tell dibbs demotions of abuse
CaLandryLL slowly turns into a stone statue.
Sarcasm says: Or what weapon combination, not just longswords
MaNi says: uhm
Qq says: is that cheating?
MaNi says: is that kind of data available to starting wizards?
Sarcasm says: Doubtful
Qq says: if i wizzed just to look at how to play my mortals better, is that
cheating?
Sarcasm says: It's cheating if you tell your friends
Sarcasm says: Who aren't wizards
Fir says: It's 'cheating' in the sense if you gain an unfair benefit to
players who don't have the information, and I assume if you'd go
through THAT just for the additional information, you'd expect.
Bytre says: Or finding out where that unique is currently sitting so you can
log in your mortal to go grab it. Or which monster has the
largest xp bonus accumulated so your mortal (or your friend) can
go get it. Or where a bountied player's favourite hiding place
is. These all happen.
Agarwaen says: it's cheating if you solely use wizinfo to benefit your alts
Shadap ponders the situation.
Guest says: I had someone tell me the other night that the ballpark level of
an NPC was wizinfo. I happen to know that the snake in newbie
park is very low level.. is that wizinfo?
Fir says: Nah, that was more joking.
Guest says: Point being, what exactly constitutes wizinfo? Is there a formal
definition somewhere?
Fir says: If we're talking about the "he's below level 50" implication.
Bytre says: nope. but knowing that the snake is particularly vulnerable to
crushing damage or has a weakness to fire is.
Shadap says: To play devil's advocate for a second, using that same logic,
wouldn't knowing how to get a piece of equipment like Star
Armour also be 'cheating'?
Agarwaen says: wizinfo is definitionally information gained as a wizard.
Sarcasm says: You can science out monster levels, I wouldn't call that
wizinfo unless you obtained it by using wizard commands
MaNi agrees with Bytre wholeheartedly.
Bytre says: but cheatin' wizards don't tend to worry about the snake in the
newbie area.
MaNi says: I can see that being the type of info abused
Calcium stalks in.
Calcium burps.
MaNi says: vulnerability science is like nil
Calcium lies down.
Fir says: Did I formulate unclearly? I meant to underline that if you
wouldn't be able to find that out as a player, it's wizinfo.
Agarwaen says: (he's not vulnerable to fire, btw) (or is he?)
MaNi smirks.
MaNi says: who cares! its a snake!
Shadap ponders the situation.
Guest says: So wizinfo has nothing to do with the information and is solely
based on how you obtain it?
Agarwaen says: just saying, before you file on Bytre ;)
Solomon says: no, but his weak spot is his arms
Bytre says: In a nutshell, that is why there is the apprentice level. It has
developed over time as a response to the frequent (and law
intensive) abuse of the sharp tools given to you as a wizard.
Fir points at Solomon.
Fir giggles merrily.
Whitehand slowly turns into a stone statue.
Sarcasm exclaims: If anything, I'd hope the snake was vulnerable to cold,
being cold-blooded and all.. They can't survive if they're
too cold!
Scarecrazy dests everybody's wiztools!
Whitehand says: knowing where to hit a thing isnt wiz info. flameburger will
just tell you
Whitehand turns living again.
Fir says: HANDS OFF MY WIZTOOLS
Fir holds on to her hat.
Agarwaen says: you'll get my wiztools when you pry them from my cold,
deactivated hands
Luthien says: so being apprentice still-without-wiztools but with one alt to
blow off steam with
Luthien says: i hope this will be discussed by the senate
Luthien says: i think it could definitely boost our active wizard numbers in
the long term
Ygritte agrees wholeheartedly with Luthien.
Qq slowly turns into a stone statue.
Solomon ponders the situation.
Guest says: Or have Creator based on what you've done, not what's actually
gone through the however-many-month-or-year process of actually
being implemented.
Sarcasm asks: What about being a creator without being a wizard?
Sarcasm peers at the sky.
Solomon thinks carefully.
Brain slowly turns into a stone statue.
Solomon shakes his head.
Solomon stands up.
Solomon leaves south.
Brain turns living again.
MaNi says: seems quiet. do we need a new thing to discuss?
MaNi snickers.
Bytre says: We hear the sentiments. We will see if we can come up with some
ways to help aspiring wizards get to a mortal-playin' state more
rapidly, or ways for creative mortals to contribute without going
all-in as a wizard.
Fir agrees wholeheartedly.
Guest says: That would be awesome.
Fir says: Sudden buzzing in heads caused. :)
Whitehand says: I have all sorts of fragmented ideas up in this thick drunken
skull of mine.
Brain has something to say about wizards and the testmud, but since this is a
wiz/mortal meeting and not just a wiz-meeting he'll hold off.
Fir says: Did I already ask if people want anarchy and if so any wishes for
events?
Guest says: I would love to contribute but feel inefficient if I'm not idling
a wolf while I work. <<
Fir says: Next Dev meet in early Aug I think. :)
Agarwaen nods solemnly at Fir.
Brain nods at Fir.
Fir grins mischievously at Guest.
Shadap nods at Fir.
Agarwaen says: you have not mentioned Anarchy that I've noticed, Fir.
MaNi says: oh, I had a question. Any progress in reworking old areas/items?
Brain missed out on Anarchy.
Qq says: anarchy would be amazing
Qq turns living again.
Fir says: I have my usual Kill the Carrier ball that people can play with,
obviously, but any needs for events beyond that? I'd also love to
make people test out some project that's on its way in for any last-
minute bugs if we have suitable ones available, but can't promise
on that.
Qq says: can expect any significant new content coming up?
Qq says: *can we
Sarcasm slowly turns into a stone statue.
Sarcasm says: What about the ... necro... updates...
Scarecrazy says: I think we have a couple of areas near approval, no, Fir?
Sarcasm turns living again.
Fir says: Sec, I have one 'yes' vote for Anarchy, are we going to be sitting
in there with Qq and me? (Mostly I need to figure out how much
effort to put into researching some technical issues with kicking
it up.)
Fir nods solemnly to Scarecrazy.
Fir says: One of them may go in before anarchy is up and running if I get
unlucky. ;)
Luthien says: if you run anarchy, i guarantee people will come out of the
woodwork
Agarwaen says: right
Qq says: fo shizzle
Eco says: not interested in anarchy personally, but there will be people who
are
Agarwaen says: count me in, even though I haven't done it since...what, the
second one?
Calcium slowly turns into a stone statue.
Sarcasm asks: Does Malire even log on anymore?
Sarcasm peers at the sky.
MaNi snickers.
Sarcasm exclaims: I never see him!
Anthem slowly turns into a stone statue.
Sarcasm says: Always invisible probably
Eco says: he was on the other day
CaLandryLL leaves south.
Anthem thinks carefully.
Anthem turns living again.
Bytre says: Malire is around frequently. He is always watching YOU when you
think you're getting away with something.
Bytre throws his head back and cackles with glee!
Agarwaen giggles at Bytre in delight.
Sarcasm says: Oh dear
Fir falls down laughing.
Guest says: There was a true newbie on last night wanting to talk to Malire
about Dragon's.
Shadap slowly turns into a stone statue.
Brain snickers.
Luthien says: what
Fir says: He reads mail quite well.
MaNi leaves south.
Guest says: Not sure I'd subject a newbie to mudmail. =3
Luthien says: there was a Guest last night claiming to be a true newbie but
asking me skeevy questions
Solomon arrives.
Solomon leaves south.
Guest says: Ponderous.
Qq says: the one true newbie
Agarwaen nods solemnly at Fir.
Agarwaen agrees wholeheartedly with Guest.
Luthien says: anyway re: mudmail, the newbie could also leave messages in the
dragon's playground with the idea command or something
Luthien says: if you're afraid they'll be scarred for life by IMS
Fir falls down laughing.
Shadap chuckles politely.
Shadap turns living again.
Fir says: Malire's email is public too!
Agarwaen says: also true
Fir says: What other questions did I miss on the way.
Brain mumbles something about most veteran players are scared of IMS.
Bytre says: #aacideas
Guest says: Ah, nice, I'll point him that direction then next time he's
around.
Agarwaen says: with good reason
Bytre says: (just kidding - don't refer them to #aacideas)
Brain snickers.
Takhan arrives.
Takhan leaves south.
Agarwaen says: dare I ask?
Qq says: have you guys considered any news ways of promoting aa in an effort
to expand the playerbase?
Agarwaen says: also my brain reads that as AA acid-ideas
Brain nods psychedelically.
Bytre says: Voting on topmudsites. We've been getting a boost in new players
with the rise in the rankings.
Brain agrees wholeheartedly with Bytre.
Brain says: Voting seems to help a lot.
Scarecrazy says: Some nice ones too.
Bytre says: but a lot of what we need to get new players is word of mouth
from existing players.
Qq says: yeah well done on that it has been great
Shadap says: It seems like there's been a collective effort lately, and it's
great to see.
Brain says: Some people suggested trying to appeal to the non-mud audience as
well through apps/FB/etc.
Fir says: We tried a few different ways and ideas about a year ago, like
trying to submit articles about AA to places.
Fir says: I went and updated the wikipedia article a bit around then too.
Bytre says: a mud is a tough sell today for someone to just happen across.
Telling a friend about this cool place, and sitting down with
them to play together, can be awesome for getting someone
engaged.
Fir says: (Take care editing those though, we don't want to get into
editwards with the editors.)
Scarecrazy says: The topmuds description could use a little beefing up.
Brain says: Oh!
Eco slowly turns into a stone statue.
Brain says: There was this survey done by Game Informer a year ago.
Guest agrees wholeheartedly with Scarecrazy.
Brain says: What game genre would you like to make a comeback?
Shadap nods at Scarecrazy.
Brain says: Top one: Text-based adventure games.
Fir says: Oh yeah, someone told me we need an update to the topmuds desc but
they failed to deliver me a suggestion.
Whitehand slowly turns into a stone statue.
Sarcasm slowly turns into a stone statue.
Brain says: There're hungry gamers out there that want AA, they just don't
know it yet.
Shadap says: I've been wondering lately if it would be a good or bad idea to
advertise AA as more of a "hardcore" game.
Agarwaen nods solemnly.
Bytre says: By all means feel free to promote AA in your own ways.
Luthien says: it is fairly hardcore given the death penalties
Calcium turns living again.
Brain says: We've had Diku-kids come in, learn they have to earn their gear
all the time and death has a larger effect, then log out.
Agarwaen says: we're up to #6 today
Scarecrazy says: Man, hardcore, I think Genesis, i.e. PK mud
Shadap says: It seems like some people get turned off by not being able to
keep their equipment, but I know there's a huge audience out
there for really difficult, even unforgiving games.
Agarwaen says: less than 30 votes from #5!
Luthien says: yeah to me a hardcore mud is a pk one where death is final
Agarwaen says: midcore?
Agarwaen peers at the sky.
Bytre says: Something I've done is print up business cards (at vistaprint,
they're only a few bucks for shipping). Put them on bulletin
boards, and slip 'em into fantasy books at the library. I don't
know if that brings new players or not.
Shadap says: I'd agree. Absolutely.
Luthien says: but we are fairly hardcore compared to what people play these
days
Brain agrees wholeheartedly with Luthien.
Scarecrazy says: Didn't someone suggest 'hardcore' mode for AA a while back?
Bytre says: Need a challenge Candy Crush doesn't give you? Try AA.
Shadap says: For MUDs anyways. But when speaking of the games out there
today, AA absolutely is hardcore.
Luthien giggles at Bytre.
Scarecrazy says: Perma-death, but with advantages because of it?
Brain grins mischievously at Bytre.
Fir says: Ooh I might be able to add a vote.
Luthien agrees with Shadap.
Shadap says: Though games like Dark Souls 2 show that there are people who
crave that sort of thing.
Fir says: 29!
Luthien nods.
Agarwaen cheers Bytre enthusiastically.
Whitehand voted
Whitehand turns living again.
Agarwaen says: is The Mud Connector still valid? I've never made an account
to vote there.
Shadap thanks Bytre.
Luthien says: yes
Fir says: There's a) the challenge, and b) the space for imagination that
text-based gives (and AA has an awesome world).
Luthien says: i know a couple newbies who told me they found us via TMC
Agarwaen nods solemnly at Fir.
Shadap says: Just wanted to note that it's been great getting reminders.
Luthien says: so it's still worth voting there imo
Agarwaen says: my wife is interested in a vague way
Fir says: It's still valid, I vote there with mah account.
Agarwaen thanks Fir profusely.
Qq says: i think i might have one more question before i sleep. How is AA's
finances looking? do you have a short/mid/long term outlook?
Guest says: I really like the hardcore mode idea, SC.
Whitehand says: a buddy of mine has shown some interest in playing. course I
regail him with stories of whitehand or munchausen.
Brain says: How difficult would it be to package a flash client tuned to AA
and put it on sites like Kongregate?
Fir says: Finances! I delegate to you while I scroll back for things I missed
(I think there was something.)
Bytre says: AA's finances are OK. We're slightly behind our goal for the
year, which covers our hosting. We have good reserves.
Fir says: Flash development requires in my knowledge buying a flash
development kit, which means I can't just dabble with it.
Brain nods at Fir.
Guest says: I can uhh.. help you with that, Fir..
Whitehand says: Oh I have a question.
Anthem slowly turns into a stone statue.
Agarwaen smiles warmly at Guest.
Fir says: Let me buy you a couple of beers, Guest!
Bytre says: We have a flash client on our website. Its an out of the box
thing, I don't know how to work with flash.
Whitehand says: more of a clarification really. in regards to the monthly
subscription to aa via paypale
Agarwaen says: what an excellent project for a non-wizard ;)
Luthien says: give him a couple levels when he gets 400
Fir leads Guest to the nearest pub.
Brain says: I still think that AA should try to branch outside of drawing the
mud audience and be considered a 'game' and not just a 'MUD'.
Calcium slowly turns into a stone statue.
Brain nods at Bytre.
Calcium turns living again.
Whitehand says: If 10$ one time donation gives status to one alt, does a 10$
a month subscription do it for one alt a month?
Brain says: I've seen new games come out on Kongregate all the time and ppl
flock to play it and break it.
Bytre says: The monthly subscriptions - we have a few people who do that.
Just as a "thank you" for the game. One of them doesnt play much
anymore, but has such fond memories that they love supporting it.
Calcium stands up.
Calcium stalks south.
MaNi arrives.
Brain says: Imagine that kinda viewing from non-mudders?
Brain says: -?
Calcium stalks in.
Bytre says: The monthly subscription option doesn't give donator status, its
just a way of trickling $2.50 a month to us.
Calcium lies down.
Fir says: Would Kongregate take an out-of-the-box Flash client, has anyone
been able to figure out?
Whitehand nods solemnly.
Whitehand says: Might see my name pop up in that sometime in the future
MaNi hiccups.
Bytre says: We have a java client as well.
Brain says: Keep in mind you'll get bug reports and they expect you to fix
them.
Brain says: They being the audience.
Fir says: I've seen some mud set up a landing/canvas page on Facebook Games.
But they had their own slightly specialized client.
Brain nods at Fir.
Brain says: We have the game, we just need the delivery device to branch out.
The medicinal bandage covering MaNi's wounds dries up and falls away.
MaNi nods solemnly to Brain.
Whitehand says: Well, I do work in a library, I COULD post a sign or 20 about
aa.
Brain nods at Whitehand.
Shadap slowly turns into a stone statue.
Scarecrazy slowly turns into a stone statue.
MaNi says: sounds library doable
Scarecrazy turns living again.
Fir cheers Whitehand enthusiastically.
Whitehand says: They have a few little boards there to post things on. I
could make a little sign or something.
Anthem turns living again.
Fir says: If you make, mail me a copy for archival!
Ygritte slowly turns into a stone statue.
Brain says: Like Bytre mentioned, he makes business cards too.
Brain actually has a box of them.
Brain snickers.
Qq slowly turns into a stone statue.
Luthien says: yeah i made some cards
MaNi says: AA business cards?
Luthien nods.
Brain nods solemnly.
Fir nods solemnly to MaNi.
MaNi throws his head back and cackles with glee!
Luthien says: modified one that's on the website somewhere
Whitehand says: Whitehand, artificer at large. For a good time log in at
ancient.anguish.org
Bytre says: you know, we are very open to player driven promotion. If someone
has the interest in building or modding a client, posting fliers
in the library, doing some business cards, setting up a
kongregate area.. we can be pretty supportive
Whitehand peers at the sky.
Brain nods solemnly.
Brain says: Now, to find volunteers.
Brain peers around the room.
Luthien points at Brain.
Scarecrazy points at Brain.
Whitehand nominates Brain.
Agarwaen slowly turns into a stone statue.
Eco leaves south.
Brain is pretty sure somebody else is better at Flash than I.
Bytre says: http://anguish.org/promotion
Fir says: I have allll these fun things I could do if I had a buncha time.
Whitehand says: Well it sure isnt me
Agarwaen says: Guest hinted at secret knowledge
Brain nods at Fir.
Agarwaen turns living again.
Calcium burps.
Brain agrees wholeheartedly with Agarwaen.
Guest says: Hm?
Qq turns living again.
Luthien says: guest the flash wizard
Brain says: He practically volunteered to give Flash to Fir, from the sound
of it.
Luthien says: so flashy
Agarwaen says: didn'y you say you knew Flash?
Brain drops his pants and shows Fir his pride.
Fir grins evilly.
MaNi grins evilly at Brain.
Agarwaen grabs his elephant by the trunk, swings it around madly and whaps
Brain in the head with it.
Brain grins mischievously.
Sarcasm says: Ronin's AA banners don't show anything to me
Anthem says: ronin's link is empty for me
Sarcasm turns living again.
Calcium looks drunk.
Luthien says: doom
Guest says: Oh, Flash, yeah, I'm pretty decent with AS3, and have a cracked
copy of CS5.5 for anyone else who cares about Flash development.
Brain nods solemnly.
Luthien says: now where are those business card thingies. were they on a fir
site or a jerusulum site or somewhere on anguish.org
Brain says: We need somebody versed in Flash enuff to make this client
happen.
Brain says: When we have the client working, we can start putting them up
places.
Bytre says: I thought I had some examples on the aa website somewhere, but I
cannot find it.
Guest says: I dunno, sounds like a job for you, Brain.. you'll have to learn
AS3 anyway soon. >=)
Brain nods at Guest.
Agarwaen says:
http://web.archive.org/web/20070126045931/http://www.linduz.ne
t/banners/index.html only has one non-broken link
Brain figures out who Guest is.
Brain snickers.
Guest throws his head back and cackles with glee!
Calcium slowly turns into a stone statue.
Calcium turns living again.
Brain says: But, you already have the knowledge. I won't fer another 2 years.
Guest says: Enroll for Fall and you'll have it by Christmas. =3
Brain nods at Guest.
Brain can't.
Fir gives Guest a very innocent look.
Brain says: Anyhoo. Package the mud cutely and people will come.
Brain guarantees it.
Scarecrazy says: CC AA?
Fir says: Are we aware of any other muds doing this successfully somewhere?
The sample I found on FAcebook was not getting a lot of value from
it.
Scarecrazy says: (Candy Crush AA)
MaNi grins evilly at Scarecrazy.
Luthien says: what are you offering as the guarantor
Agarwaen says: his brain, obviously.
Brain throws his head back and cackles with glee!
Agarwaen gazes at Luthien innocently.
Fir says: Ok, I've been asked how long we'll go on, is there any other people
who need a time limit?
Anthem says: If you start publishing hello kitty themed mud clients, we're
doomed.
Brain falls down laughing.
Luthien says: how about my little pony
Luthien says: push the paladin class
Agarwaen says: I WILL katana you.
Luthien beams at Agarwaen.
Bytre says: A My Little Pony skinned AA client? That'd get my daughter in.
Agarwaen flutters his eyelashes at Luthien.
Luthien cheers Bytre.
Shadap says: I think there are a few of the top ranked muds on
topmudsites.com have custom clients. Doesn't seem like it hurts
any to have the option.
Shadap turns living again.
Agarwaen says: him, I let live.
Anthem says: pwnies might actually work
Brain says: Ha, Pwnies.
Sarcasm slowly turns into a stone statue.
Agarwaen says: custom client definitely needs Topmud/TMC voting buttons, by
the way ;)
Brain agrees wholeheartedly with Agarwaen.
Shadap chuckles politely.
MaNi nods solemnly.
Brain says: I would love to help w/ the design of the clien.t
Brain says: Coding it is outta my level of expertise.
Sarcasm says: I can't think specifically of examples, but zMUD/CMUD give
default packages for some muds.. that have added built-in
features
Sarcasm turns living again.
Bytre says: I think a custom client can make things more accessible, but its
time. I'd love to write one, but I have far too many irons in
fires and some of those irons are blocking other people.
Sarcasm says: Visual indicators of health/sps, etc
Agarwaen says: the client I use came with custom triggers and aliases and
such for a particular mud
Brain says: Mushclient is the new thing where ppl are making add-ons.
Luthien says: we have a few players who have written some plugins for
mushclient
MaNi says: id vote mushclient as well
Scarecrazy says: was just about to suggest we put Spoo on it.
Luthien grins mischievously.
Calcium hiccups.
Brain agrees wholeheartedly with Scarecrazy.
MaNi says: doesn't zMUD cost money?
Luthien says: and mani! mani has a highlight package
Bytre says: one of our players wrote a popular mud client in the 90's. I
don't recall what it was though.
Sarcasm says: It does
Brain leers at Mani's package.
Shadap mumbles something about so does flash.
Fir says: We should clearly set up an aawiki page for downloading mushclient
plugins etc.
MaNi says: pff
Calcium slowly turns into a stone statue.
Luthien says: we also need to list it in help clients
Fir says: (wiki so that people can update it easily.)
MaNi says: highlight package is a far way from being acceptable
Calcium turns living again.
MaNi gazes at Luthien with wide, innocent eyes.
Fir nods solemnly to Luthien.
Luthien says: and which clients are deemed not totally sucky for ios/android
Agarwaen agrees wholeheartedly with Luthien.
Brain agrees wholeheartedly with Luthien.
Luthien says: what's the android ones people use? blowtorch and there was
something siawn was trying i forgot the name of
Bytre says: If you're enthusiastic about a mud client and can create a
package of enhancements for it, we can package it on the website
or (in the case of those who will include it in thier install),
we can try to get it into the client. We're a community, don't
just assume a wizard or arch is the only one who can do it.
Luthien says: but i think he went back to blowtorch
Fir says: I collected a list to Gemynd Post.
Luthien thanks Fir.
Luthien says: that dodgy rag
MaNi says: blowtorch crashed all the time for me when I had android.
Fir says: http://gemyndpost.wordpress.com/2012/04/21/mudding-with-phones/
Agarwaen says: I use LensDroid which is pretty solid
Fir says: Feel free to pilfer for any purpose.
MaNi says: but yeah lensdroid seemed better
Luthien says: you'll be hearing from me again to copy it to the help dir
Luthien shakes her fist.
Agarwaen cheers Luthien enthusiastically.
Fir grins evilly.
Fir says: You gonna move it to somewhere people can update it more easily
first? :)
Luthien says: well
Fir says: Though of course I can hook you up to that thing too.
Whitehand stands up.
Whitehand leaves south.
Agarwaen says: psssh. maintainability is for wimps
Luthien exclaims: yeah, what he said!
Fir falls down laughing.
Agarwaen says: we're hardcore!
Luthien says: i'll put a page for clients on the wiki as well
Fir says: IT HAS A COMMENT BUTTON YOU CAN USE THAT.
Qq slowly turns into a stone statue.
Luthien says: the wiki forum hasn't functioned since before the server move
Agarwaen thanks Scarecrazy profusely.
Scarecrazy says: Oh, crud, I must get rid of the feeler.
Anthem slowly turns into a stone statue.
Agarwaen giggles at Scarecrazy in delight.
Scarecrazy sulks in the corner.
Luthien says: a comment button? madness
Fir says: (The blog. General Wordpress.)
Luthien says: i'd have to allow it in noscript or something
Sarcasm asks: Who's in charge of the AA website again?
Fir says: Someone asked at some point about progress on revamping old areas.
Luthien says: paldin
Scarecrazy says: Paldin
Sarcasm nods solemnly.
Luthien says: yeah i think mani asked that, fir
MaNi nods solemnly to Fir.
Fir says: One of the areas that I forgot to count in my babysat projects is
actually a revamp of Fub's that looks like it's not going to get
installed over Fub's because people would cry, and therefore it's
more likely to pop up as an area of its own if I can find the time
to go through it and find how much changes that would require.
Agarwaen says: oh neat. I can actually scratch something out of my IDEAS
file.
Fir says: Instead, we figured we can do like surface painting at places like
Fub's that make them more acceptable but don't make players sad.
Shadap slowly turns into a stone statue.
Agarwaen says: or not.
MaNi says: yeah, thats what im looking for.
Agarwaen snaps his fingers.
Fir says: Like if the room describes rats, it's awesome if you can exa rats.
Agarwaen nods solemnly.
Fir says: Anyone who has time in their hands (or wants to negotiate an
alternative route for their wizards) can sign up for this polish
project.
Calcium looks drunk.
Luthien says: potentially as projects for yeah
Luthien says: 400->500
Brain grins mischievously at Fir.
Agarwaen nods solemnly.
Agarwaen says: GMTA
Luthien says: without having to go through all the steps of starting an
original area
Scarecrazy says: I will sponsor whoever updates Khmoram's quest to qc
standards.
Luthien looks at Scarecrazy, then falls on the ground, rolling and laughing
for several minutes.
Fir shudders.
Luthien says: NUKE IT FROM ORBIT
Agarwaen grins at Scarecrazy mischievously.
Agarwaen says: "update"
Brain throws his head back and cackles with glee!
Scarecrazy says: That project IRRITATES ME
MaNi says: and. items from old areas.
Fir falls down laughing.
Sarcasm says: Don't nerf my crowbar of holiness
Luthien says: well when you start talking about items
Luthien says: you get balance involved
Fir says: We need to find a way to do it a little at a time, so whenever the
person goes insane, we'll be like a few steps closer!
MaNi nods solemnly.
Shadap says: Are there particular areas you're looking for people to update,
or just any older areas that don't meet current standards?
Shadap turns living again.
Luthien says: we're trying to focus on cosmetics
Luthien says: to avoid that
Agarwaen agrees wholeheartedly with Fir.
MaNi says: very well
MaNi says: there is a large balance issue between areas old and new though ;p
Fir says: Mostly Fub's has come up acutely because I had to find out what to
do with the project I inherited.
Brain was just about to say that.
MaNi says: particularly in the value of items
Fir says: But I also have this group of typo fixes to Ravel that I remember I
should get in (and figure out where they are).
Luthien nods to MaNi.
Bytre slowly turns into a stone statue.
Calcium burps.
MaNi says: and just rebalancing said items so they may be more desirable to
todays players.
MaNi shrugs helplessly.
Calcium slowly turns into a stone statue.
Calcium turns living again.
Ygritte turns living again.
Sarcasm asks: Anyone remember when golden fieldplate got used?
MaNi says: yeah, stuff like that
Calcium stands up.
Calcium stalks south.
Fir says: Rebalancing in the sense of boosting something or are we talking
about old overpowered things?
Guest says: If I remember correctly, it's the perfect weight for training
strength on a gigantic wolf?
Brain says: I think both.
Agarwaen says: pretty clearlyu he's talking about old underpowered items.
MaNi says: well, both
Agarwaen says: No old overpowered items play Ancient Anguish.
Brain says: Or old super-loot areas.
MaNi says: but what items are old and overpowered?
Luthien giggles at Agarwaen.
MaNi says: besides elvy
MaNi coughs noisily.
Anthem raises his hand.
Brain says: Which aren't balanced to the standards that new areas are.
Calcium stalks in.
Anthem turns living again.
Agarwaen snorts at MaNi derisively.
Calcium lies down.
MaNi nods solemnly to Brain.
Agarwaen says: guys, I only have like 3 hours here
Sarcasm says: Star Armour is old and overpowered
MaNi says: oh, that
Luthien giggles at Agarwaen.
Calcium looks drunk.
Fir says: Note that SOME new areas are not balanced to standards either, and
are dangerous to use as a comparison point for boosting everything
else.
Sarcasm says: And really doesn't take much effort to acquire
Fir says: Where by 'new' I mean 'not really new'.
Sarcasm says: (When you know how to do so)
Brain nods at Fir.
Calcium looks queasy.
MaNi says: well. isnt that kinda the point of uniquues
MaNi says: is to be overpowered?
Guest says: So it need to be harder to get? Enter Jacob?
Sarcasm says: Gilded Full Platemail got nerfed into oblivion
Sarcasm says: And it's a unique
MaNi says: and so its just clutter
Shadap slowly turns into a stone statue.
MaNi says: unique and clutter is a silly concept
Brain mumbles something about Onix, Horn of Not-Really-Power.
MaNi agrees with Brain wholeheartedly.
Sarcasm says: At least Onix gets used in precious doc though
Brain nods at Sarcasm.
MaNi says: thats something
MaNi says: also!
Brain thinks it was better as an exotic unique.
MaNi says: elvenheart should be made of mithril. srsly
Luthien says: it hasn't been an exotic unique since 1999ish
Luthien says: get over it already
Brain nods at Luthien.
Agarwaen says: have you MET us?
Django arrives.
Django looks blank and says 'oh'.
Luthien grins at Agarwaen.
Brain snickers.
Agarwaen says: Nostalgia is what we live for.
Guest mumbles something about Knife, not Club.
MaNi says: but yes. is there a reason why onix was changed into a club?
Calcium looks queasy.
Bytre says: it is OK to have some occasional unique a bit overpowered and
some stuff less powerful. we aren't about a series of little grey
objects, all alike.
Bytre turns living again.
Luthien says: yes, it's a club
Agarwaen says: magic wand, obv
Fir says: Awesome, I'm learning newt hings (I mean, New things) in the
background.
Agarwaen cheers Scarecrazy enthusiastically.
Luthien says: (disclaimer, i was not involved in the onix change)
Brain mumbles something about it depends on how you hold it.
Fir points at Brain.
Fir falls down laughing.
MaNi says: bytre, its not that its less powerful than other uniques, its
about the fact that its less powerful than a nonunique
Agarwaen nods solemnly at Brain.
Agarwaen says: not the worst idea actually
Luthien says: if it depended on that it would be a club one way and a rather
sad spear the other
Sarcasm asks: Can we change necro black wands so that we can wield them?
Bytre says: I'm listening, Mani. Send me mail.
Agarwaen says: wield Onix as club, etc
Guest says: You say sad spear, I saw awesome rogue secondary.
Brain grins evilly.
Anthem slowly turns into a stone statue.
Fir makes kissy faces at Scarecrazy.
Calcium slowly turns into a stone statue.
Calcium turns living again.
Agarwaen chortles in glee!
Agarwaen says: hell, Aladdin was my sponsor.
Calcium hiccups.
Agarwaen says: Bishop. whatever.
Scarecrazy cowers in the corner.
MaNi says: very well then! perhaps I will. ;p
Shadap turns living again.
A stenographer says: Logging stopped at Thu Jul 17 19:18:32 2014 by Calcium.
A stenographer says: Logging started at Thu Jul 17 19:18:39 2014 by Calcium.
Brain cheers enthusiastically.
Fir falls down laughing.
Brain falls down laughing.
Calcium says: sorry
MaNi says: heh
Takhan arrives.
Sarcasm says: you want a list of every severely underpowered unique? :P
Takhan leaves south.
MaNi pokes Calcium in the ribs.
Brain spanks Calcium!
Fir says: Yeah this tool is NOT designed for town hall meetings.
Scarecrazy says: I sure hope that appends and not overwrites.
Fir says: ME too.
Anthem falls on the ground, rolling and laughing for several minutes.
Anthem turns living again.
Agarwaen tickles Calcium playfully.
Luthien giggles.
Brain says: Might as well send it, just so ppl are aware.
Calcium says: I just wanted to see if i could
Agarwaen says: great, now we're gonna have to recode the steno before the
next TH
Scarecrazy says: I vote we make Calcium write it out 100 times by hand if it
doesn't.
Luthien says: i could generate a log in case of catastrophe
Calcium sobs inconsolably.
Luthien says: or that
Whitehand arrives.
Luthien says: yes, that
Bytre says: uniques should be special. If they are really old and dusty and
not very szpecial, let me know about them. Maybe we'l beef one up
when we "nerf" somethingelse. :)
Anthem says: I log sessions. I have everything from when I arrived.
Brain grins evilly.
MaNi says: Im okay with that
Agarwaen smiles warmly at Bytre.
Fir says: OMG OMG OMG Bytre!
Luthien says: me too but then i'd have to edit out all the naughty tells i
sent to mani
Agarwaen says: yeah I have a log from :09 after
Brain falls down laughing.
Sarcasm says: as long as it doesn't nerf me, I'm good with it!
MaNi says: With comparisons to existing nonuniques and comments on why they
are not good and stuff
Calcium looks queasy.
MaNi says: and thoughts on stuff and things and such
Guest says: 2hps vs steel greatsword?
Django slowly turns into a stone statue.
MaNi says: yeah
Django turns living again.
MaNi says: thats a good one
Luthien says: TIME FOR COFFEE AND DONUTS
Brain agrees wholeheartedly with Luthien.
Anthem summons: Claire.
Calcium burps.
Anthem says: hm. that failed. maybe we need more donuts.
Luthien says: i could forage up some stuff tha tturns into pastries
Fir says: I realized the log is now Quite Long, should we like break off here
and continue in another meeting, or keep gossiping until the log is
too long for any boards?
Calcium looks queasy.
Luthien says: but
Bytre says: Its been a pleasure, and exciting to see the enthusiasm from all
of you. I really need to get back to work though.
Luthien says: we've already all been hanging out in one room for nearly 2.5
hours
Agarwaen agrees wholeheartedly with Bytre.
MaNi nods solemnly to Bytre.
Luthien says: not sure i am up for another hour in the monk picnic area
Ygritte slowly turns into a stone statue.
Guest whispers softly to Bytre.
Brain nods solemnly.
Shadap nods solemnly.
Scarecrazy says: Thank you, everyone!
Brain agrees wholeheartedly.
Fir says: Yeah, we can do post-meeting-gossip!
Shadap says: If it's okay to ask one more quick question...
MaNi agrees wholeheartedly.
Luthien says: SO, ABOUT TRAITS
Brain grins mischievously at Shadap.
Fir says: Ok, one more.
MaNi says: well, im gonna get a list going
Fir spanks Luthien!
Anthem falls on the ground, rolling and laughing for several minutes.
Agarwaen muzzles Lithium.
Brain falls down laughing.
Shadap says: About a year ago, Mendebar was actively discussing new guild
rankings for Knights, as well as possible guild events. However,
it appears that he has taken a leave of absence. I'm curious if
there is news on either of these projects (if you're able to
discuss them, of course).
Whitehand leaves south.
Agarwaen twiddles his thumbs.
Fir says: I don't have any data on these, myself.
Shadap nods solemnly.
Shadap says: Understandable.
Brain stands up off the mat.
Brain takes a big square pattern mat.
Luthien says: me either. i am aware of the project, but not the status of it.
Agarwaen says: new rankings as in new Elders, or...?
Sarcasm says: Oh man, we need to bribe Llanfear to do a Chaos update
Shadap says: Just curious since people still seem to be interested.
Luthien says: new pretitles
MaNi grins evilly at Guest.
Agarwaen finally gets the idea into his thick skull and gives an 'ah' of
comprehension.
Luthien says: there are posts on knight board about it
Django leaves south.
Agarwaen says: that's been kicking around a LONG time. I remember it from 99
Anthem says: wow when was the last time we had new elders
Luthien says: he finalized the list
Fir says: Ok, closing meeting - do I get the correct impression that people
would like to have a new one at some point? Any preferences on how
soon?
Bytre says: Contact Mendebar and ask him about it.
Anthem grins evilly.
Luthien says: but not sure where in development it is
Luthien exclaims: and yeah mendy is around from time to time, send him mail!
Shadap nods at Bytre.
Agarwaen says: I'm already asking him about something else
Anthem says: I got nothin'
Agarwaen says: will ask if he responds
Bytre says: Please feel free to ask your guildmasters for updates and for
things.
Shadap says: I didn't want to be a bother about it. I know how easily that
can be interpreted as nagging, and I understand these things
take time.
Agarwaen says: 2 months?
Fir says: In this case if you ask nicely I think it's going to be a sign that
people are still interested, not nagging.
Agarwaen says: quartly?
Luthien says: i'd allow some time for the senate to discuss some of these
things
Agarwaen says: quarterly?
Calcium burps.
MaNi says: biannualy
Calcium looks drunk.
Luthien says: so yeah i vote at least 2 months, maybe more :P
Shadap smiles at Fir.
MaNi peers at the sky.
Agarwaen nods solemnly.
Fir says: Ok, I'll aim for somethinglikethat and senate discussions hopefully
lead to updates.
Agarwaen says: speed of mud
MaNi says: seasonally
Luthien says: variable speed
Sarcasm asks: So, we can expect a decision on whether or not traits will be
resettable by the end of the month, yes?
Sarcasm taps his foot impatiently.
Fir says: But not just wait for senate updates either, so let's set quarterly
as a sort of deadline.
MaNi grins evilly at Sarcasm.
Luthien grins at Sarcasm.
Fir grins mischievously at Sarcasm.
Luthien nods to Fir reasonably.
Fir says: Ok, log off in 1...2...3..
Sarcasm exclaims: Clock's ticking!
Agarwaen says: Lughnassadh, Samhain, Imbolc, and Beltane?
A stenographer says: Logging stopped at Thu Jul 17 19:25:39 2014 by Fir.